#not maintagging to avoid discourse but like.

[paci-transformers]

^ me @ earthspark rn

[bookwyrminspiration]

quil, any thoughts on the debate over manipulative fitz and his narcissistic tendencies in his relationship with sophie? (in the notes of the post from @/sophitz from 5 days ago)

Hi, Nonsie. I'll share a few thoughts, but I have absolutely zero desire to get wrapped into active discourse/arguments about this. This is non-exhaustive since I can't address every possible point/consideration in one post, but it covers more the heart of it I think.

I may or may not answer any follow-ups/reblogs about this, unsure yet. I really hope my answering this does not put it on a pedestal from which it catches fire, so everyone be cool please

I think it's ridiculous, unfounded, and frustrating. The original term used and debated was "narcissistic pervert." From what I can tell, that term originated with Paul-Claude Racamier in the 1980s-90s, and the only academic source I could find/access on the topic was his "On narcissistic perversion", which was a synthesis published in 2017 of a 1985 and 1991 paper + lecture. I can't link this because I could only access it through my uni, and I can't find basically any trustworthy sources (or any more recent sources) talking about it outside of him--at least in English. There may be other papers/professionals in untranslated French

From that, I'm highly skeptical of any use of the term colloquially, especially since it involves narcissism, which has an extremely misunderstood, negatively biased rep currently. Practically the only things you find when looking into perverted narcissism are informal blogs perpetuating stigma (e.g.: "If you’ve been in contact with a narcissistic pervert, remember that if he’s chosen you, it’s because you represent to him what he’ll never be able to be: a whole person!" <- real quote)

When reading Racamier's paper, I kept Fitz in mind--and specifically Fitz with Sophie, as that was a distinction made in the argument. That Fitz has perverted narcissist tendencies when it comes to Sophie specifically. I don't find that, based on my reading, to be true.

A few features of narcissistic perversion Racamier notes are (verbatim): it is vital to them not to owe anything to anyone, the inability to apologize and the rejection of remorse, the inability to express thanks, subjects impose a heavy burden on anyone who comes close to and concerns himself or herself with them, expresses his (narcissistic) perversion by his enjoyment of asserting himself at the expense of others, etc.

I don't find any of these traits to be true to Fitz, with Sophie or otherwise. Not wanting to be in others' debt is normal, and I can't think of an instance he reacted to the idea disproportionately (I suppose directly after Alden broke could count, but one instance does not a narcissist make), he's demonstrated a clear ability to apologize/be remorseful sincerely (including with Sophie specifically), to express genuine gratitude, doesn't consciously or intentionally impose on those close to him (it isn't his fault if others don't communicate any burden they experience so he can alter his actions, e.g. the stress of matching), and doesn't enjoy tearing others down around him to lift himself up (unless in a joke environment).

The paper goes on to talk about predation on a specific object (in this case Sophie). This object is "bearable only if it is dominated, ill‐treated, and sadistically attacked – and above all mastered." I find none of these words to be accurate to Fitz and Sophie's relationship--he does not dominate or master her, nor does he want to. He does struggle with being so rapidly unseated as the best, and wants to be someone others look to and trust, someone capable. But an instance of understandable jealousy that he doesn't want to feel/give in to (evidenced during the Inquisition as he fought the feeling) does not make him a narcissist. He simultaneously enthusiastically supports and compliments Sophie's prowess.

I know I referenced this one specific paper near entirely, but it appears to be the only thing to reference. And I am not a professional in any regard. This is my understanding of the term based on Racamier's explanation, which I've referenced against Fitz. The behaviors and mindset associated with narcissistic perversion (summarized as "the predominant need to assert, and the pleasure of asserting, oneself at someone else's expense") do not widely align with Fitz's (as a whole or just with Sophie)--and the instances in which they do aren't demonstrative of a pattern on which a claim like this can hold ground. I wish I could find the exact quote from another source I was looking at, but it's essentially: there are traits/tendencies of disorders in everyone, what makes them disordered is when they're abnormally extreme.

This is longer than I intended it to be so I'll try to wrap this up. This is in direct response to the idea of Fitz as a narcissistic pervert, which is what the discourse in the post you referenced discussed/started from. This doesn't talk about NPD or every point referenced by the individuals discoursing, as this isn't intending to respond to them. I am not an expert.

Based on my understanding and limited research, I think it inaccurate and callous. I think it misrepresents Fitz's actions and motivations, and while I am biased, I think this holds outside of my bias.

[onesidedradiostatic]

(After the Respectless Reprise)

Velvette, calling Vox on the phone: VOX!!! End this stypid debate once and for all! What was the color of your turtleneck when you took that damned picture with Valentino?

Vox, picking up the call: Uh... What now?

Velvette: Some of your crazy "fans" cropped that stupid picture I took of you two near his desk with your monitors! They've been going crazy at the color of your stupid turtleneck in the leaked photo

Vox: Right right.... and..... This is my problem because....?

Velvette, muttering under her breath: I swear to god... this is just like that stupid dress thing all over again.....

Vox: The what now?

Velvette: Forget it! Your old arse wouldn't even get it anyway and we don't have the time! That stupid thing blew out of proportion!!! It's been trending on Vitter for Hell's sake so you better do something about it!

Vox: Vel, I don't see the problem. It's just a color for something that happened a long time ago. It shouldn't even matter.

Velvette: Well it does matter because demons—not even just sinners, Vox— have been going at each other's throats about this for hours on end just for the sake of their fanart consistency!

Vox: Fanart consistency?

Velvette: Oh for fuck's sakes, Vox— Aren't you connected to your network right now? You should be able to see just how bad it is in there!!

Vox: Mhm... yeah, yeah... well..... right...

Velvette: Vox. Are you listening to me right now?

Vox: *noncommittal hum* Yeah..... That's better...

*Velvette pauses for a moment before a look of realization crosses her face*

Velvette: Wait... Don't tell me your at your Alastor shrine again instead of at your office?

*Clatter clatter CRASHHH*

Vox: *cough cough cough* H-Huh? What? NOOOOooo... No, no I'm not. What are you talking about Velvette?

*Velvette side glances at Alastor still silently having his mental breakdown before moving onto Lucifer fiddling with his tie and cane as he refuses to meet anyone in the eyes*

Velvette: Yeaaah.... Right.

Vox: A-ActUALLY!! I was just about to go there. To— to my office I mean. I mean, I just came from an important meeting after all!! Yes, a very very important meeting. With uh.... About– Sinflix! Yes, yes Sinflix. You know how that annoying little parasite has been taking some of our profits with all their 'free services' shtick that we've been losing money in the other Rings.

Velvette: Right. Right. (I don't care)So... your turtleneck color?

Vox: RIGHT!!! *Ding ding ding!* Yeah, about that I uh....

*Side glances at the scarce remains of his closet that was once full of multiple variations of turtlenecks colored red, orange, yellow, and even blue. Some of them actually being striped. There was a sell in one of the secondhand-me-down shops if you buy in bulk back in the day when he first fell into Hell. And he wasn't one to pass up a bang for your buck. Unfortunately, he also had to burn a lot of them after Velvette joined team to avoid her wrath. And now he can't remember which one he wore during that picture*

Vox: Well... About that, I don't.... actually remember?

Velvette: You don't sound so sure of yourself.

Vox: Well, the picture itself is faded so some of the color has changed. Not to mention the lightning.

Let me ask Tino if he remembers.

(I hope you enjoy this. Someone please sedate me)

oh my fucking god (reference to this, and this, and the turtleneck discourse is just this entire fucking tag. basically we've been spending the last 2 days debating about vox's stupid fucking turtleneck)

literally everything being referenced is giving me fucking whiplash HELSPGKOS vox himself getting into the debate because he doesn't remember is hilarious

only thing I will have to correct there is that vox does in fact own netflix in hell so it's voxflix not sinflix

considering maintagging this and putting it out into the wild with zero context (until they check the links)

EDIT:

misunderstood whoops here's the clarification LMAO

[eggtwobroes]

big post explaining/apologizing for my (eggtwobroes/theyhitthepentagon) behavior under the read more

sorry for maintagging this i just. think its important

i dont really kniw how to word what im thinking so im like. going to type it as im thinking. but i wanted to make a real genuine post explaining my behavior over the past year, because ive been a dick there is no avoiding it!! this post is going to be about how ive acted from june up until now. im mostly going to be explaining the situations and apologizing. if you see this please feel free to share it around, i know it most likely will not reach alot of people because i have like. a loot of people blocked. and alot of people have me blocked. idk please share this ok thank u

back in june 2022 (specifically one year tomorrow, june 16th) i got like. really worked up after i had foundout that most of my adult mutuals (and some people i followed) were drawing hlvrai nsfw! the only post i had made about it (at least from what i remember) is liiike a not Kind post that basically said "hey if u like hlvrai nsfw please block me i thought that was common sense". after i posted this a large hlvrai artist (either by chance or caused by me) posted like "hey if u shit on hlvrai porn ur homophobic! sex is an important part of gay relationships etc etc"

this caused a Massive out break of discourse over hlvrai nsfw and me getting alot of adults in my inbox being weird towards me. here i feel its important to mention that:

when i was 12, i was around Ex Friends that posted a lot of porn of media i liked. even though most of them were teenagers and not that much older than me it Greatly Impacted Me and how i act, both related to what i saw and how i was treated

i used twitter from ages 12-15 (recently left) and you know how they handle conflict there. its not good

i dont think either of these excuse how i acted (but they may explain it)

the combined pressure of getting a bunch of adults in my anons being (from my perspective) really weird about this 14 year old kid who doesnt want porn artists to interact, and the unhealed trauma of Being Exposed To Homestuck Porn When I Was 12 (a devastating situation that everyone goes though all the time) i didnt really. handle it in a Good Way. which Means i sent horrible anon hate to people.i dont clearly remember if i made alot of public posts about the situation at the time (beyond answering the anons i was getting) but if i did im very very VERY sorry.

i feel like. alot of how i acted during this time (june-early august, mostly) was extremely Dickish and rude. as much as i justify or explain why i acted the way i did, i was still causing issues and handling the situation in a way that was unhealthy for not just myself but for everyone else around me. for this i really genuinely do apologize as much as i can, to the people ive hurt (melonsharks, xenodogz, many other artists) and to the people who were annoyed by me rehashing 3 year old drama. ever since the situation i have been working towards learning to block people and move on if they make content that makes me feel nauseous.

As for how ive acted in recent months, mostly over characterization, im not going to pretend that im already a new person. because im not! as much as i say im trying to be less of an asshole im just Not. it takes effort that i feel like im not putting in.

for those who just Dont look at my pages often enough, i will occasionally make posts about how hlvrai fans treat or characterize the. characters. and lets behonest these posts are really rude and ive been working on at LEAST being more vague or keeping it in private or like. just Not Posting it. but of course i HAVENT done all of those things! ive been really unvague!

ive posted direct screenshots of authors writing (someone younger than me, ive recently learned) to shit on it for being mischaracterized. i should Not have done that. at the very least i should have kept my thoughts to myself, not even shared with my friends.

after reading how other authors and artists have felt about the things ive said, and looking at the way ive come to think of other artists or authors in the community, ive realized that even though i thought i was targetting mischaracterization and poor treatment of the characters, i was harming and discouraging artists and authors who are still learning and growing as creators.

for this, im VERY very sorry to all of the artists and writers ive hurt or discouraged with my posts. i want to personally apologize to joyflameball, for publicly posting about and hating on your writing and the discouragement i caused as a result. i should have never put mischaracterization over your own feelings, and i definitely should not have put your work on blast, especially because we are (i think) around the same age. i will be trying as best as i can to deconstruct the way ive come to think of other creators in this community and support other creators as best i can.

i dont expect to be forgiven for the way ive acted, since alot of this is VERY very recent and so far i dont think ive shown any signs of improvement. i am writing this post now because i want you all to know that i will be trying my hardest to become a better person, change the way i think of other people, and change the way i act in public. i dont think my actions can be excused, as much as i try my best to explain them from my perspective. ive undeniably hurt many people. if i havent addressed something important, or if you have any questions/things to say, please feel free to send me an ask or dm me at wretched yaoi lich#9564 on discord. im most likely going to be queueing this post alot so my followers see it. thank u for ur time

[objectlovernonhuman]

They/it

18 bodily

Polyfragmented DID system, introject heavy.

Collectively objectum, nonhuman & queer, specifics of this vary.

A lot of aspects of our identity heavily overlap or are completely not divorceable from eachother.

We post and reblog whatever the hell. It's not super consistent, this is our anything and everything blog.

Sometimes we do engage in discourse, but we mostly don't like discoursing. we avoid system origins and alterbeing discourse as much as possible.

We reclaim various queer slurs (including the word queer itself in a slur way) and unless it's a maintagged fandom post, we rarely CW/TW tag it anymore.

We try to keep it down to an absolute minimum, but sometimed we may reblog stuff about adult topics. Filter out "minors dni" if you're under 18 and following us.

Do not follow & preferably don't interact if (genuinely sorry about the length):

- Pro/"neutral"/"complex" contact on any paraphilia for which the other party cannot consent to (such as minors, animals, dead bodies), or otherwise significantly/inherently harmful of other beings, yourself, or the enviroment.

- Radqueer.

- TransID/transX*.

- Anti xenogender/anti neurogender, transmed, or if you treat like man/masc and woman/fem as "opposing" and inherently exclusive of eachother (many of us who are multigender are so sick of this.)

- Anti objectum/anti ficto/anti auto or consider either to be inherently/only sexual or inherenly/only paraphilias.

- Heavily post about queer descriptor/label, alterbeing/nonhuman/etc, system origin and flag discourse.

* Transspecies is a term that originated in otherkin/therian spaces and has existed before transID/radqueer ever did. the latter communities appropriated/stole the term, and the claim transspecies is a transID term is false.

[typicalcommondandelion]

1, 6, 7, 8 and 24 for the hatred ask game?

Oh my god that's so many,. Okay.

Answers under read more,

1: the character everyone gets wrong. FR3CKL3W1SH THUNDERC7AN W4RR10R C4TS <- avoiding maintags. If I have to see another picture of Fr3ckl3w1sh umu sadding her way through sad sad depression montages I am going to scream. One of the few female characters in the fucking world that expresses her depression through blinding fury, and everybody just makes her do waterworks. Tragic.

6: which ship fans are the most annoying? Idk tbh, bc I stick mostly in my circle of ships (ULTRAK1LL, a.k.a. YUR1KILL), and I don't intentionally go looking for other ships or inadvertently see shipping for other ships.

7: what character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them? See above, Fr3ckl3w1sh. Because of the way she basically unironically gets woobified, aaaand also because half the time she's used to put down M4pl3sh4d3. I'm a #girlboss Maple apologist/justifyer because I like myself a pathetic girlie and also because it often feels like Fr3ckl3w1sh defenders/apologists/whatever are more delusional about the character they're defending than the shades of maple defenders.

8: common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about. Tbh. I don't fandom enough for this question lol. The main fandom in in rn (ULTRAK1LL) I don't often disagree with ppl about (much less WIDELY HELD opinions), and I'm not active in the WC fandom to know what opinions are "common".

24: topic that brings up the most rancid discourse. ....Yeah it's gotta be WC maples again. Especially since it involves dark topics such as murder, kitty racism, multiple-parties-at-fault/string-of-failures-of-responsibility-or-actions, and paranoia and hallucination (which ropes in sch1zophren1a <- avoiding maintags, again) and thus mental health. It's a shitshow.

[th3sh4dygr3y]

hey can people who say shit like "backrooms are now just like a ripoff of the scp foundation" and "Well the whole point of the backrooms is that youre alone!" get their own tag. the negativity is like, not so good for people who just want to look at empty rooms and look at silly creatures. (perhaps after a long exhausting day) /lu /srs.

[justalittlebluetiefling]

Have we ever been told why the Dynasty abducted Yeza like that?

My assumption is that Essek told them to based off information he’d received from his Cerberus Assembly co-conspirators. But why? I suppose it could have been chance if the soldiers discovered him down in his lab. But what reason would they have for taking an alchemist? And the weird thing is, his conversation with Essek in that cell is so casual. Like, they’d been starving him, but no one had gone in to question him before this? Questioning him from the shadows seems so... tame, by interrogation tactics standards. If this was really such important information, why didn’t they get more aggressive? Did the Mighty Nein just have timing that good? What was the point of abducting him? Taking a resource away from the Dynasty? Was someone else close to figuring out what was going on, so the Cerberus Assembly told Essek about Yeza and Essek was just “storing” Yeza for them or something? 

I have so many questions about this. I would like more information, please.

[cupcraft]

to add to the conversation about meta and critical analysis and stuff i just want to say that critical analysis isnt bad in general. Hear me out though keep scrolling if you dont want to read a long discoursey kinda post but its not neg for reference /srs.

NOT A VAGUEPOST! I am commenting solely on trends of things in the fandom since my experience being here since 2020 writing meta since january 2021.

---

many people (like me for example) enjoy writing analysis that is through a critical lens even though we enjoy the narrative and character. Some people enjoy writing through that lens and they dont like that character or narrative. some people dont like the narrative or character at all and it would be critical. i think at least in all my experiences in fandoms is a really normal part of fandom analysis and enjoying a story and is fine! if you maintag you for sure should tag your crit and stuff but in general i think this on the whole isnt bad. Gen really weird cc neg is bad, and theres some other nuance of course but thats not the main pt of my post, but i dont think thats the majority of critical analysis in any fandom including this one we are in here. I just want to stress that people engage in this fandom in various different ways as they do in all fandoms.

I think what is really stressful is the vagueing that goes on. and for the record i am not vagueing anyone specifically by saying that and none of my mutual or people i follow or anyone at all, once again i am commenting on trends ive seen /srs! Like meta has become really difficult in my experience in fear of the neg that comes along with it or the thought that people "hate the dream smp/the content" or "hate cc's" etc because of it or even "cc's dont do lore because of posts like this". And i think that's something that needs to be addressed and talked about because it's something that we're all aware of existing and its definitely been a source of contention i think...

I think reblogging someones meta directly to discuss or add your own points (i always include a pls add on personally!) and or sending that person an ask if theyre willing to is also fine. I also think being inspired by meta to write your own points is quite fine too, those are all really enjoyable parts of fandom analysis.

and to use a personal example i know a lot of people who dont like c!ranboo or his narratives and after the ghostboo caimsey stream i remember there being a lot of discourse. I personally dont block crit analysis or anything bc i usually like to read it regardless, but i remember having a vastly different view of that stream and the narratives! So what i did was make meta about the lore from my perspective without vagueing anyone or have ties to what i read. I just was like "i really liked xyz and heres why" kinda posts. Its also crit analysis and all sorts of meta in general that have helped me change my views of characters or explore new narratives because of the different views i see about it.

What i'm trying to say is that like i think we can exist in a world where fandom crit and meta and noncrit meta and silly hcs and etc. can be enjoyable and cohesive together though i do realize there is some nuance to what i'm saying and this doesn't really handle all circumstances within this discussion.

And maybe youre a person who crit analysis stresses them out and it ruins your fandom experience. I think this is very valid but i think in fandom spaces we need to find ways to curate our own experiences. i'll admit some lore discourse has stressed me out too but i generally dont engage with it or i start ask games or hc games or i write unrelated meta or things just to avoid it. I dont have a lot of solutions for this other than: tag discourse and crit in maintagged posts, ask people you are mutuals with or follow if they can tag something (though there is no guarantee someone will and thats a okay!! you may need to block this person or their personalized blog tags for lore analysis), and or do what i do and write meta about how you did love a stream and why and start new discussions. Though i'm not sure of any other solutions off the top of my head, so i'm happy to hear more solutions.

The reason i'm writing this post is because of the crit analysis = you hate a cc and you just hate the narratives and you dont love the dsmp at all and you hold them at too high a standard etc etc etc kinda mindset i've seen since like late 2021. Because i don't hate cc's or the narratives. if i did i wouldn't be in this fandom, i woudn't write meta or engage with the content at all. and the vagueposting that i've seen is very discouraging to see at the very least especially as i've noticed how things have evolved since 2020 fandom.

I'm not sure if this is a good post, or if it adds to the discussion well. Tbh im afraid this will start discourse in itself which isnt really the point (though i tagged it that way for blacklisting...). This post is intended to help our fandom space be more cohesive to allow people the space to take narratives where they want (with nuance of course!) and for people to curate their fandom experience how they want too.

So as i always do with meta please add on, please send me asks about this. Reply. correct me even!! though i have turned off rbs because im kinda nervous for such a large discoursey style post being rb-ed around. All i ask is just dont vague me or sc this...like my anons are on i'm happy to discuss this and vagueing stresses me out which should be obvious from me writing this whole post.

because i want us to have a healthy fandom experience if we can and I see how stressed out its made me and many people on dsmp.blr during lore discourse days/analysis moments/etc.

let me know your thoughts <3!

[discoblocks]

*✧･ﾟ:* Pinned *:･ﾟ✧*:

Hi! You can call me disco, or disc I guess, idk it’s not my real name so go wild. Pronouns are they/he, and I prefer masculine terms. Keep in mind I am an adult, but I generally don’t post things that are nsfw or inappropriate for tumblr age peeps

TO BE CLEAR: I am a sideblog, so interacts will come from my alt, @discoblocks-alt so if you see asks or replies from that acc, that’s me! If you follow me and that account follows you, we are mutuals!

‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️

A Note For Twitter Refugees: if you’re coming here from bootwt and associate yourself with that community heavily, fuck off. The behaviour I’ve seen from the collective twitter side is unacceptable, and I don’t want you on my blog. If you think it’s fine to truth and speculate on cc’s neurodivergency or sexualities or anything similarly personal and private (ie. Tubbo is so autistic that he failed the autism test!!), even in jokes, fuck off. If you don’t agree with mspec lesbians and in general care to police identities, fuck off. If you still support Dream, fuck off, and I really mean it. If you care to speculate on the cc!beeduo stuff, fuck off. If you’re here from poppytwt, leaktwt, or adjacent communities, fuck off. If you’ve made it through all this and this doesn’t describe you, then you are welcome on this blog, twitter refugee! Please private your likes and following, and reblog posts more often than you like them. I’ll take this down whenever Twitter actually kicks the bucket

Mains:

Bouncing around ccs a bit, mainly watching slimecicle, tubbo, and other qsmp creators

Tag list under cut

Tag list:

#discotalks - for my own original posts, thoughts and jokes, not reblogs, but okay to rb

#lore talks - for discussion of lore, but not necessarily discourse or crit

#discourse - I use this very liberally, but generally I’m trying to avoid discourse posting. I will tag anything that becomes a bit too negative with this

#discodraws - art tag, I don’t post much art but I do occasionally

I don’t maintag often, if you’d like me to tag for anything more specific let me know. I always try to tag tw things, but it’s hard to cover everything, so if you need a specific tw, let me know. If there are any other tags you’d like me to use more regularly, feel free to send me an ask!

[stomp-that-ho-regard]

the existence of the "cr discourse" tag itself makes me kinda sad honestly bc of the culture of fear it contributes to. if you scroll down for like 5 minutes you'll see that every other post in that tag is tagged w some kind of hedging like "not maintagging to be safe" or "oh this isn't really negative I'm just tagging discourse to be safe" meanwhile the post itself is something like "I wasn't a huge fan of [x moment]" or "I wish more people in the fandom recognized [y fact]" like ... do you not realize how sad and toxic it is that people are scared to maintag even the most milquetoast criticism of a thing they like ....

I was thinking about this a few days ago.

It’s the combination of toxic positivity and canon worship that has fostered this fear. Fans are genuinely afraid to post their honest opinions in the main tag because they know at the barest hint of criticism, they will be dogpiled. This is not how a healthy fandom space functions. This is NOT NORMAL. 

It’s not just a problem on here though. I’ve seen this same kind of thing on Twitter, and it’s usually ship-related. Tweets that have anything positive to say about Beaujester, are typically prefaced or followed with some kind of praise for Beau/yasha. Like, “I love BY, they’re great together. They’re perfect. But BJ was done dirty.” or “I really miss BJ. Don’t get me wrong though, I love BY. It’s amazing!”

It’s the same fear. The feeling that you have to add a whole ass disclaimer to your opinion, which is insane. (It even happened to me on here. Right after ep108, I had to work up the courage to post in the main tag, and I put a disclaimer at the top saying, “This is not a hate post, I’m just venting.”, because I was worried I’d get ripped apart.)

Those kinds of ‘disclaimer’ tweets are usually coming from people who multi-ship, or used to multi-ship. But because a majority of their followers/mutuals are BY’s, they feel they have to be very careful about what they say and how they say it. They cannot express ANY kind of affection for BJ without blowback, so the disclaimer is tacked on in order to avoid that. (I know I’m making assumptions here, but that’s what the situation looks like, because why else would they feel the need to qualify it?)

So it’s not just being critical of character interactions or wishing there was more focus on a certain story aspect, or even company decisions. It’s fairly innocuous ship stuff too. And as I said, the toxic positivity and canon worship has created a whirlwind of hostility. It’s almost hilarious how ironic it all is. That in the larger CR fandom’s quest to make this a positive, uplifting, ‘safe’ space, they have actually turned it into a cesspool of negativity. They achieved the very opposite of what they wanted.

The cr discourse tag reminds me why I’m grateful that, even when I watched the show, I never really got too involved with the fandom.

Well, I’m glad you've been able to avoid that, anon. I wish I could’ve avoided getting too involved. It’s easy to fall into fandoms. And it can be fun and is usually pretty nice... until it isn’t. They all implode at some point. But the spoiling of the CR fandom has been more disappointing then most, because it’s sold itself as something different; more open, more loving, more inclusive. But there’s way too much ego floating around for any real love or inclusiveness to exist. People are too obsessed with ‘being right’; the ‘right’ opinions, the ‘right’ behavior, and policing other fans with some made-up ideas in their heads about what the cast really wants. They act as if they’re the casts’ mouthpieces.

It’s exhausting.

[fiovske]

Re: CR feeling different after the hiatus: we had a lot of time to read/write meta, and it affects our experience of the show. I too thought CR was different after the break, but this week I avoided all discourse and found myself liking the episode a lot more. The same happened when I was catching up on C2 on YouTube. I never even took much notice of some scenes that caused a stir in the comments (bowlgate wtf), and it made my watching experience a lot more enjoyable. Just some food for thought

aah. buddy, glad that's worked for you! I haven't had the kind of luxury to watch a full CR episode in a while but the vibe IS there that things are different. I have been dealing with immense health issues meanwhile where my recovery was terribly unsure so I really haven't had the luxury or the time to read/write metas either and because I had bigger, more tangible problems now in the matter of mortality and had to confront things in my life that are time-sensitive. I realized how short my life is and how grateful I still am that I get to recover at all, that I get to live.

so you can imagine that CR has been reduced to a much much smaller part of my life than it used to be and somehow it gives me the perspective, as a queer woc, to watch some things that I have watched post hiatus and not feel the fear to critique aspects of it insofar how I quickly found the show to become more of a source of anxiety where it once brought me comfort.

it also made me realise a lot about the parasocialness of the fandom and perhaps toxic positivity too, attached to a harmless term. but I'm not here asking for attention. (no self-respecting cast member is gonna be on this hellsite scourging thru my blog but it's a fucking funny image tho) but perhaps aggreiving the loss of something that was once very close to me? and things that I feel are.. off and perhaps intentional in a way it wasn't pre-hiatus. but I am also aware of the lack of impact my little corner of a blog has on the grander scheme of things and how the show is run. which is why I keep these grievances here, mon-maintagged and not for those to find who don't already perhaps share similar grievances in terms of the show feeling ...different since the hiatus.

[beetlemancy]

Hey I appreciate how vocal you are about the bullshit in the CR fandom but would you consider tagging things as discourse for those of us who have delicate sensibilities about confrontation? I really enjoy your blog but the “disk horse” as other people have called it to avoid tags stresses me out 🙃

I have two tags that I use and have tried to be clear about what they are:

cr discourse : for when i dont want to maintag but discussion is happening in the cr discourse tag

no fandom tags we die like passive aggressive chipmunks:  for when things are just being rehashed or when i don’t wanna spam the above tag or, more especially, when i’m being a little Extra Salty

[antimony-medusa]

Hey! It’s notable that if you go to pearl’s actual blog, that post does not exist. Whether she saw the discourse and was convinced by some comments about the value of neruodiverse headcanons or decided to just let the fandom do fandom, she has clearly retrated that as a hard boundary. 

I think we now know that potentially she’s not hugely comfortable with it, so if you are maintagging I would maybe avoid saying things like “pearl is sooo autistic” and trending more on the side of “oh headcanon sighted, this wet woman is so autistic to me” (making it clear that we’re engaging with the fictional persona, not just assigning a label to a person on the internet), but I would be cautious about policing that boundary using that screenshot, as she took it down within 12 hours. 

Bringin' this back with the discussion of Tango on tumblr and cc boundaries in general:

Please be aware that Tango is very much not a fan of being depicted with demonic features in general, and specifically he dislikes being shown with horns.

In this clip he expresses that being drawn with horns "bothers me a little bit, I'm not gonna lie" and in this one he semi-jokingly says "no it doesn't bother me" while nodding and mouthing that it does. (For those that might have problems processing body language and unspokens, it's pretty obvious that he's trying not to make a big deal about it, but that he's not a fan of the idea.)

Respecting a creator's wishes is good fandom etiquette, especially when it's something as non-impactful as requesting to be portrayed in fanworks with or without a certain feature. Especially if there's a chance that he might actually be lurking, please keep this in mind.

[discoblocks]

One last post, and while this applies to this situation I think it’s also important generally to understand that simply not maintagging your crit or neg or discourse isn’t really enough. While this is a barrier that might help prevent ccs from seeing it for a bit, those posts get reblogged and shared across the fandom anyways, and it’d be stupid to think that it’s just never ever going to reach a cc because it’s not easily searchable. Also if you the original poster tag it with something, the filtering of that tag also applies to reblogs, so if you tag something with #discourse and someone reblogs it without the tag, the tumblr filter does still filter the reblog as #discourse, so it does matter whether or not you tag your posts (at least it does this for me in iOS on mobile, not sure abt other platforms).

Secondly, just because people are following you does not mean they must agree with every opinion you have, especially when it comes to lore. In addition, people might find very specific kinds of crit or neg or discourse triggering, but the rest of your posts are fine to them. If someone politely asks if you could tag a specific kind of post, unless that kind of post is the majority of what you post, it’s really rude to say that they should just get over it or unfollow, especially over a minor incident, and especially over an issue that you don’t talk about much. Yes, they can unfollow and try to find someone else who tags their stuff, but the problem that is happening is that no one is tagging their posts with these warnings. People are running into content they would normally like to avoid on blogs they otherwise trust and are forced to unfollow whole circles of the community that they actually want to be a part of, forcing them to further disengage from the entire community that refuses to tag over what is almost always a one-time disagreement that they don’t want to see conflict about. It seems extreme, but with less and less people tagging their crit and discourse and neg, it’s becoming impossible to avoid crit, discourse, and neg, across the board.

Just….listen. Obviously you are allowed to criticize things, and even find joy in it! But you have to understand that not everyone does, and especially not for the exact same things that you do. Tags are meant for filtering. On tumblr obviously they get used in a very unique way, but their original purpose of filtering is still deeply important. They take two seconds to add. They do nothing to hurt you or your post but they do everything to help others. Please please please, if someone politely asks you to tag something, it costs you absolutely nothing to tag it, and there is no reason not to aside from your own pride. When people ask, they are not trying to start an argument, they are not angry with you, they are politely trying to curate their experience here. It is not a huge ask to tag your neg, crit, and discourse. Please consider doing it more.